Mark 7:
31 Then he returned from the region of Tyre and went through Sidon to the Sea of Galilee, in the region of the Decapolis.
32 And they brought to him a man who was deaf and had a speech impediment, and they begged him to lay his hand on him.
33 And taking him aside from the crowd privately, he put his fingers into his ears, and after spitting touched his tongue.
34 And looking up to heaven, he sighed and said to him, "Ephphatha," that is, "Be opened."
35 And his ears were opened, his tongue was released, and he spoke plainly.
36 And Jesus charged them to tell no one. But the more he charged them, the more zealously they proclaimed it.
37 And they were astonished beyond measure, saying, "He has done all things well. He even makes the deaf hear and the mute speak."
Amos 8:
11 "Behold, the days are coming," declares the Lord GOD, "when I will send a famine on the land-- not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD.
12 They shall wander from sea to sea, and from north to east; they shall run to and fro, to seek the word of the LORD, but they shall not find it.
EPHAPHTHA
(BE OPENED)
THERE IS A FAMINE IN THE LAND
OF HEARING, OF HEARING
FOR MAN DOES NOT LIVE BY BREAD ALONE
BUT BY EVERY WORD OF THE LORD
THERE IS A FAMINE IN THE LAND
MEN ARE DYING, THEY ARE CRYING
THEY CRY OUT FOR THE BREAD OF LIFE
HE IS THE WORD, HE IS THE LORD
LET HE WHO HAS AN EAR
HEAR WHAT THE SPIRIT IS SAYING
EPHAPHTHA, BE OPENED
HEAR AND SPEAK THE WORD OF THE LORD
SHEMA Y’ISRAEL
WEAR HIS WORD ON YOUR HEART
HEAR AND SPEAK THE WORD OF THE LORD
FOR FAITH COMES BY HEARING
AND HEARING BY THE WORD OF GOD
WORDS AND MUSIC BY: CHRIS PAJAK
COPYRIGHT 2004 ROCK WITH WINGS/LATREUO MUSIC
Sola Scriptura!
Sunday, April 12, 2009
Wednesday, August 27, 2008
Lakeland Response #1
I am putting these articles in no particular order, but I thought I would start with this one as it it most problematic.
I will add my comments in blue font, using my Blogger initials AP. I have also added numerous links to scripture which pertain to my answers. If I am not affirming what the scriptures say, I will not speak. This will be a bit lengthy, but I feel that it is most important.
*Reflections on Lakeland and Bentley*
*By R Loren Sandford*
Website;http://www.newsongfellowship.org/
We're living in a time when God is so serious about His character imprinted into us for the honor of His name, that while He often uses seriously flawed people to accomplish His purposes, there is nothing hidden in any leader's heart or life that will not be exposed. Luke 12:2-3,"But there is nothing covered up that will not be revealed, and hidden that will not be known. Accordingly, whatever you have said in the dark will be heard in the light, and what you have whispered in the inner rooms will be proclaimed upon the housetops." Yes, God pours out His grace in forgiveness, but we must never forget that God's holiness must be honored and that He does act for the sake of His own name.
AP: Well, right off the bat we have a problem.
Is/was there ever a time that God is not serious about His character and how we represent it?
The use of Luke 12, completely out of its context btw, is skewed.
Luke 12: 1In the meantime, when so many thousands of the people had gathered together that they were trampling one another, he began to say to his disciples first, "Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy. 2 Nothing is covered up that will not be revealed, or hidden that will not be known. 3Therefore whatever you have said in the dark shall be heard in the light, and what you have whispered in private rooms shall be proclaimed on the housetops.
Jesus is referring to the spoken word here. The leaven of the pharisees:
Matthew 16:11How is it that you fail to understand that I did not speak about bread? Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees." 12 Then they understood that he did not tell them to beware of the leaven of bread, but of the teaching of the Pharisees and Sadducees.
As well as our own words:
James 3:
1 Not many of you should become teachers, my brothers, for you know that we who teach will be judged with greater strictness. 2For we all stumble in many ways. And if anyone does not stumble in what he says, he is a perfect man, able also to bridle his whole body. 3If we put bits into the mouths of horses so that they obey us, we guide their whole bodies as well. 4Look at the ships also: though they are so large and are driven by strong winds, they are guided by a very small rudder wherever the will of the pilot directs. 5So also the tongue is a small member, yet it boasts of great things.
What comes out of our mouth is what will be revealed and answered for, not necessarily our "secret" sins.
Matthew 12:
35 The good person out of his good treasure brings forth good, and the evil person out of his evil treasure brings forth evil. 36I tell you, on the day of judgment people will give account for every careless word they speak, 37for by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned."
(As an aside, James is quite clear that he refers to all of our speech, not just encouraging us to say nice things as that passage is commonly eisegeted.) I am spending more time on this introduction, as here is where we have the root of the issue.
The focus is on Todd Bentley's sins, which apparently now include drunkeness.
This is a distraction from the real issue, which is the fact that this was a false revival from the start, evidenced by false teaching and doctrine. The adultery, the drinking, the "rock star-groupie" mentality, are all the fruit of the forbidden tree.
The cross is for all who are truly regenerate, who fall and who come to Jesus confessing their sins and repenting,i.e. turning back to Him and His word. My question is, is Todd Bentley truly regenerate, and is what he preached the Truth?
I will dare say that on any given Sunday in church pulpits and on church platforms, there are those leaders who are engaged in sin, and who may never be "found out" this side of heaven. Now I am NOT condoning overlooking sin. I am saying that the church has never dealt scripturally with this problem. We are a prurient and voyeuristic people to be sure. We aren't really interested in "restoration" as much as we are looking for the juicy details. We do not need "sin-sniffers" in the church. The "leadership" in evidence here is "sin-sniffing" in order to cover the own rear ends and restore Bentley to leadership.
We need saints with courage, engaged in the work of the apostolic and prophetic. This is what was lacking concerning Lakeland from the beginning. This is why I believe that the Lord allowed this thing to be demolished AFTER the self-proclaimed apostles and prophets gave it their stamp of approval. Let God be true and EVERY man a liar.
Loren Sandford:
Nevertheless, God calls us who lead to a higher standard.I Timothy 3:1-7, "It is a trustworthy statement: if any man aspires to the office of overseer, it is a fine work he desires to do. An overseer, then,must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, temperate, prudent,respectable, hospitable, able to teach, not addicted to wine or pugnacious, but gentle, peaceable, free from the love of money. He must be one who manages his own household well, keeping his children undercontrol with all dignity (but if a man does not know how to manage his own household, how will he take care of the church of God?), and not a new convert, so that he will not become conceited and fall into the condemnation incurred by the devil. And he must have a good reputation with those outside the church, so that he will not fall into reproach and the snare of the devil."
Why all this? So that God's name will not be smeared.
AP: But Sandford said several paragraphs back; "We live in a time when our national Christian leaders are bringing dishonor to the Lord's name with distressing frequency"
So which is it? Are men smearing the Lord's name or not? I have already addressed this.
Loren Sandford:
When David fell with Bathsheba and killed her husband Uriah, Nathan the prophet confronted him with his sin.
II Samuel 12:13-14, "Then David said toNathan, 'I have sinned against the Lord.' And Nathan said to David, 'The Lord also has taken away your sin; you shall not die. However, because by this deed you have given occasion to the enemies of the Lord to blaspheme, the child also that is born to you shall surely die.'"
Don't focus on the dying child or you'll miss the point. The issue is that sin gives occasion to the enemies of the Lord to blaspheme. Right now the world looks at the debacle of our falling leaders and cries, "Oh look!The charismatics have made fools of themselves again!" Sad reality! God forgave David, but an issue remained. "You have given occasion to the enemies of the Lord…" When you and I sin, and especially leadership,it's never a private thing. It's about the honor of the Lord, our church,our brothers and sisters. It's about the wider impact. It affects us all,weakens us all and discredits us all. In the 1980s it was Jim Baker and Jimmy Swaggart. Recently, it's been the Bynums, Ted Haggard and others; now Todd Bentley.
And the world says,"Where is the power of the gospel if your leaders can't walk the walk?"The witness of every believer in our culture is compromised. "You have given occasion to the enemies of the Lord…" That's the issue. God forgives, but the damage is done. And it doesn't make any difference whether the sin exposed is the superstar's or yours. It's only a matter of how many are affected by it, but someone will be. When someone that you look up to or someone who walks in the power falls, betrays or abuses, what happens? We feel let down, betrayed,reluctant to trust again.
AP: These men are not Davids. The unredeemed are not the enemies of the Lord, else why should I preach the good news to them? The world could care less about Todd Bentley. people are too busy watching political conventions, or sports, or whatever. What did Keith Green sing? "the world is alseep in the dark while the church is asleep in the light." There are those who are His enemies and they are in what calls itself the church. Psalm 69:9 John 2:13-17
This leads us to this next point.
Loren Sandford:
In the 80's when Baker and Swaggart fell,donations to churches and ministries dropped across the country. Every Christian ministry felt the impact and paid the price. To this day many in the world accuse us of wanting only their money. This is why we're so urgently being called to holiness just now. When we fall, no one outside our Christian circles remembers the glory. They remember only the failure.
AP: It's all about the cash, period!
Loren Sandford:
And that failure is taken as permission to sin by multitudes of immature believers. SIN IN LEADERSHIP MUST NOT BE MINIMIZED but faced for what it is, even as we forgive. God's mercy includes discipline. Abraham illegally fathered Ishmael byHagar, Sarah's maid when he could wait no longer for the son of promise.It split his family. Hagar and Ishmael had to be driven out and to this day Israel battles Ishmael. Consequences!
AP: People take it as permissiion to sin because the Word is not preached. If it was, the the truly regenerate would not take such liberties. You preach cheap grace, you get a faulty product.
He disciplines those whom He loves. His wrath is for the rest.
BTW, Sanford has no clue as to what Hagar and Ishmael are about.
I will add my comments in blue font, using my Blogger initials AP. I have also added numerous links to scripture which pertain to my answers. If I am not affirming what the scriptures say, I will not speak. This will be a bit lengthy, but I feel that it is most important.
*Reflections on Lakeland and Bentley*
*By R Loren Sandford*
Website;http://www.newsongfellowship.org/
We're living in a time when God is so serious about His character imprinted into us for the honor of His name, that while He often uses seriously flawed people to accomplish His purposes, there is nothing hidden in any leader's heart or life that will not be exposed. Luke 12:2-3,"But there is nothing covered up that will not be revealed, and hidden that will not be known. Accordingly, whatever you have said in the dark will be heard in the light, and what you have whispered in the inner rooms will be proclaimed upon the housetops." Yes, God pours out His grace in forgiveness, but we must never forget that God's holiness must be honored and that He does act for the sake of His own name.
AP: Well, right off the bat we have a problem.
Is/was there ever a time that God is not serious about His character and how we represent it?
The use of Luke 12, completely out of its context btw, is skewed.
Luke 12: 1In the meantime, when so many thousands of the people had gathered together that they were trampling one another, he began to say to his disciples first, "Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy. 2 Nothing is covered up that will not be revealed, or hidden that will not be known. 3Therefore whatever you have said in the dark shall be heard in the light, and what you have whispered in private rooms shall be proclaimed on the housetops.
Jesus is referring to the spoken word here. The leaven of the pharisees:
Matthew 16:11How is it that you fail to understand that I did not speak about bread? Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees." 12 Then they understood that he did not tell them to beware of the leaven of bread, but of the teaching of the Pharisees and Sadducees.
As well as our own words:
James 3:
1 Not many of you should become teachers, my brothers, for you know that we who teach will be judged with greater strictness. 2For we all stumble in many ways. And if anyone does not stumble in what he says, he is a perfect man, able also to bridle his whole body. 3If we put bits into the mouths of horses so that they obey us, we guide their whole bodies as well. 4Look at the ships also: though they are so large and are driven by strong winds, they are guided by a very small rudder wherever the will of the pilot directs. 5So also the tongue is a small member, yet it boasts of great things.
What comes out of our mouth is what will be revealed and answered for, not necessarily our "secret" sins.
Matthew 12:
35 The good person out of his good treasure brings forth good, and the evil person out of his evil treasure brings forth evil. 36I tell you, on the day of judgment people will give account for every careless word they speak, 37for by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned."
(As an aside, James is quite clear that he refers to all of our speech, not just encouraging us to say nice things as that passage is commonly eisegeted.) I am spending more time on this introduction, as here is where we have the root of the issue.
The focus is on Todd Bentley's sins, which apparently now include drunkeness.
This is a distraction from the real issue, which is the fact that this was a false revival from the start, evidenced by false teaching and doctrine. The adultery, the drinking, the "rock star-groupie" mentality, are all the fruit of the forbidden tree.
The cross is for all who are truly regenerate, who fall and who come to Jesus confessing their sins and repenting,i.e. turning back to Him and His word. My question is, is Todd Bentley truly regenerate, and is what he preached the Truth?
I will dare say that on any given Sunday in church pulpits and on church platforms, there are those leaders who are engaged in sin, and who may never be "found out" this side of heaven. Now I am NOT condoning overlooking sin. I am saying that the church has never dealt scripturally with this problem. We are a prurient and voyeuristic people to be sure. We aren't really interested in "restoration" as much as we are looking for the juicy details. We do not need "sin-sniffers" in the church. The "leadership" in evidence here is "sin-sniffing" in order to cover the own rear ends and restore Bentley to leadership.
We need saints with courage, engaged in the work of the apostolic and prophetic. This is what was lacking concerning Lakeland from the beginning. This is why I believe that the Lord allowed this thing to be demolished AFTER the self-proclaimed apostles and prophets gave it their stamp of approval. Let God be true and EVERY man a liar.
Loren Sandford:
As God entrusts us with more power and more glory,accountability for character issues rises. As we cry MORE LORD, God answers by asking more of us because we've been given more.
Luke12:48 says, "From everyone who has been given much, much will be required; and to whom they entrusted much, of him they will ask all the more." God may not make perfection a requirement for wielding the gift of His mercy and His power, but with the blessing of His mercy and power comes responsibility and accountability to grow in looking like Jesus,being like Jesus, acting and living like a people set apart, different from the world. We MUST grow in His ways. Many of us are currently grieving deeply over the failure of Todd Bentley's marriage (leader of the Lakeland Outpouring) and his inappropriate emotional relationship with a female staff member. I am praying that there will ultimately be full disclosure of all that has been amiss in his life. I'm praying for the fathers in the faith who have come around him to help him through this and that one day he will be able stand before us all and disclose everything with a broken and repentant heart. I am praying that his ministry will be restored with more power and wholeness than before. Full disclosure must come because sin, especially in a leader, opens a wound in the body of Christ that can only be healed with full disclosure. I know as a pastor of a flock that if I were to fall into sin, it would open a wound in all of my people. Trust would be breached. This wound Todd has opened needs healing. It needs to happen both for Todd and his wife and for us. But nothing can be healed that remains hidden. Until full disclosure happens people will instinctively feel that something is off or wrong. This is part of why so much criticism was and is aimed at the Lakeland Revival.
AP: Now we are getting to the heart of it all. Yes to whom much is given, much is required. What is the more of what we are crying for? I ask, did the Lord give Bentley anything to give out ? All this defense of Todd Bentley is predicated on the assumption that this was a genuine "move of God" (I hate that erroneous expression) lead by a genuine man of God. Also we are back to the "inappropriate emotional relationship" diversion. Jesus called it sin. So should we. What do we do about the visions of the "angel Emma", talking to the dead, etc? This is more akin to Roman Catholicism. What happened to every last cent given in offering by those in attendance? Todd Bentley's marital problems need to be resolved between him, his wife and family, and most assuredly the Lord. Let those who condoned this "revival" share in the responsibility also. We are responsible for the damage done to the new believers and those whom the Lord is calling in even through this debacle. We are called to disciple, so let's disciple. BTW, all truly scriptural criticism of Lakeland is justified. No one had to "instinctively feel" anything. It was obvious to everyone who is lead by the Spirit and the Word.
Loren Sandford:
There have been the usual vicious, religious-spirited critics whom I dismiss out of hand, but there were many lovers of revival who sensed something wrong that was hidden and has now come to light. Disclosure must be full and complete. If exposure and repentance have been only partial in the case of a leader who has fallen, then there remains cause for continuing accusation. The ministry is weakened. The rift continues. The wound remains only partially sealed. We live in a time when our national Christian leaders are bringing dishonor to the Lord's name with distressing frequency.
AP: Ah yes let's go after the "heresy hunters". It's their fault. I am a lover of true revival, which is always preceded by reformation through the Word (the only true kind of reformation), repentance, and the restoration of God's Word as authority, which in turn restores the people. Nehemiah 8; Ezra 9; 2 Chron 29; 2 Chron 30; 2 Chron 31; 2 Chron 34; 2 Chron 35
We should notice in these passages that the written Word, and the crucified Christ as presented in the Passover were the first things to be restored. That is true reformation. The revival came after the relaying of that foundation. We should also notice that this foundation was missing in Lakeland. The Lord never allows His name to be dishonored.
Psalm 138: 1 I give you thanks, O LORD, with my whole heart; before the gods I sing your praise;2I bow down toward your holy temple and give thanks to your name for your steadfast love and your faithfulness, for you have exalted above all things, your name and your word.
Loren Sandford:
A chief cause has been that we as believers have hungered for the wrong things and lost our focus. We must hunger more deeply for holiness, purity and intimacy with God than we do for power, glory, miracles and manifestations.
AP: I hunger for God, His Word made flesh,i.e. Christ Jesus, His written Word i.e. His scriptures, and His kingdom and its righteousness. I do not hunger for holiness,purity and intimacy, and most assuredly not for miracles and manifestations. A wicked and adulterous generation seeks for a sign. I long to see His power and glory, as David did. The Lord declares me to be holy. He presents me as pure before Him. True intimate access is what He grants to me.
Loren Sandford:
We've been out of whack and now we pay the price for our lack of attention to character and wholeness.
AP: Duh..???
Loren Sandford:
Does a move of God through someone's ministry indicate that the person is holy and above reproach? Or moral? NO.
AP: Does God only "move" through one, two or a handful of ministries of men? I question the validity of these super apostolic ministries, just as Paul questioned those in his day.
Loren Sandford:
Does God use unrighteous men or men with serious character flaws? YES.
AP: The scriptures have several examples of this: Caiphas, Balaam, and even his donkey. I do not wish to be included in that gang. God will use the unredeemed, as He sovreignly wills.
Loren Sandford:
Why does God choose to pour out His healing mercy and power through such flawed vessels?Because of His love for those who receive what these men and women have to give. God responds to the need of His people and will not hold His mercy hostage to the condition of the man on the stage. In Lakeland God responded to the hunger and desperation in thousands of people the world over, in spite of fatal flaws in its leader. Look at Samson in the book of Judges. God used him to deliver Israel from enemies that were stronger than they, but here was a man who couldn't keep his pants zipped and kept making bad choices where women were concerned until he met Delilah. His weakness for her left him shorn of his hair, his strength, his eyesight and his freedom. No matter who you are, immorality reaps destruction. God does place a greater weight of responsibility on those who lead. It's a responsibility to walk with God, to be like Him in a way that people want to follow. THIS IS WHY IT IS IMPERATIVE THAT WE NOT MINIMIZE THE SEVERITY AND THE TRAGEDY OF WHAT HAS HAPPENED IN LAKELAND. To do so cheats those who have been so wounded by this and leaves the door open for more leadership failures in the name of compassion and mercy.
Full forgiveness and mercy can only be granted when the full gravity of the trespass has been faced. Wounds heal only superficially when we fail to adequately assess the severity of the damage. Because of their impact on others, highly placed leaders more than anyone else must pursue holiness.
AP: Yes indeed, God will not let His mercy, or any of His other attributes, be held hostage by men. Sandford is implying here that there is separate group of men who are of the "clergy" and then there are just us peons. Because of their impact on the church,those who are called to speak and teach should keep their mouths shut until the proper time to do so. They also need to be speaking God's Word, not touting their dreams and visions, as well as other unscriptural, extra-biblical revelation.
Loren Sandford:
Hebrews 12:14-15 commands us to,"Pursue peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no one will see the Lord. See to it that no one comes short of the grace of God;that no root of bitterness springing up causes trouble, and by it many be defiled." Sanctification means holiness, to become as God is in your character. Without that character transformation no one will, "see God." We won't experience Him truly or fully, or enter into His intimate counsel. We will miss the real revelation of who He is as sin distorts our vision.
AP: Back to the cross. It is there for all the sons of God, to come and seek forgiveness. It is God working in me, what I work out. His kindness leads me to repentance. My sinning has never broken that fellowship nor has it ever thwarted God' sovreign plan. The cross assures this to all who believe by faith, and are declared righteous by Him. This is the grace Paul preached.
Loren Sandford:
It's actually possible to hear God without knowing Him or truly experiencing Him. We can minister His power but never really see Him. And it would seem that having mystical experiences of angels and heavenly visions is no indicator that anyone has become like Him. One of the most mystical people I ever knew was Paul Cain, and yet he fell into alcoholism and homosexuality. Todd Bentley has had many mystical experiences with God, but has been headed for this train wreck for a longtime. Along these lines Jesus warned in Matthew 7:22-23, "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.'" I'm NOT saying that Paul Cain or Todd Bentley are going to hell (they're not), but the Scripture does speak of people who minister power in the name of Jesus without a whole relationship with Him. A whole relationship with Jesus results in righteousness that flows from the inside out, obedience to God that begins with a heart that has absorbed His own character. A ministry of power does not constitute evidence of holiness or godliness. It never has. Look at Samson. God comes for love of the people and often will not be held back by the condition of the man who leads.
AP: I will let this passage speak for itself. Let what this man is saying sink in for a bit. God have mercy. One question; why do we believe that Jesus is only referring to the minister or church down the street, over there, or wherever? Jesus is talking to those who claimed to be His prophets and apostles. Think about it.
Loren Sandford:
Nevertheless, God calls us who lead to a higher standard.I Timothy 3:1-7, "It is a trustworthy statement: if any man aspires to the office of overseer, it is a fine work he desires to do. An overseer, then,must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, temperate, prudent,respectable, hospitable, able to teach, not addicted to wine or pugnacious, but gentle, peaceable, free from the love of money. He must be one who manages his own household well, keeping his children undercontrol with all dignity (but if a man does not know how to manage his own household, how will he take care of the church of God?), and not a new convert, so that he will not become conceited and fall into the condemnation incurred by the devil. And he must have a good reputation with those outside the church, so that he will not fall into reproach and the snare of the devil."
Why all this? So that God's name will not be smeared.
AP: But Sandford said several paragraphs back; "We live in a time when our national Christian leaders are bringing dishonor to the Lord's name with distressing frequency"
So which is it? Are men smearing the Lord's name or not? I have already addressed this.
Loren Sandford:
When David fell with Bathsheba and killed her husband Uriah, Nathan the prophet confronted him with his sin.
II Samuel 12:13-14, "Then David said toNathan, 'I have sinned against the Lord.' And Nathan said to David, 'The Lord also has taken away your sin; you shall not die. However, because by this deed you have given occasion to the enemies of the Lord to blaspheme, the child also that is born to you shall surely die.'"
Don't focus on the dying child or you'll miss the point. The issue is that sin gives occasion to the enemies of the Lord to blaspheme. Right now the world looks at the debacle of our falling leaders and cries, "Oh look!The charismatics have made fools of themselves again!" Sad reality! God forgave David, but an issue remained. "You have given occasion to the enemies of the Lord…" When you and I sin, and especially leadership,it's never a private thing. It's about the honor of the Lord, our church,our brothers and sisters. It's about the wider impact. It affects us all,weakens us all and discredits us all. In the 1980s it was Jim Baker and Jimmy Swaggart. Recently, it's been the Bynums, Ted Haggard and others; now Todd Bentley.
And the world says,"Where is the power of the gospel if your leaders can't walk the walk?"The witness of every believer in our culture is compromised. "You have given occasion to the enemies of the Lord…" That's the issue. God forgives, but the damage is done. And it doesn't make any difference whether the sin exposed is the superstar's or yours. It's only a matter of how many are affected by it, but someone will be. When someone that you look up to or someone who walks in the power falls, betrays or abuses, what happens? We feel let down, betrayed,reluctant to trust again.
AP: These men are not Davids. The unredeemed are not the enemies of the Lord, else why should I preach the good news to them? The world could care less about Todd Bentley. people are too busy watching political conventions, or sports, or whatever. What did Keith Green sing? "the world is alseep in the dark while the church is asleep in the light." There are those who are His enemies and they are in what calls itself the church. Psalm 69:9 John 2:13-17
This leads us to this next point.
Loren Sandford:
In the 80's when Baker and Swaggart fell,donations to churches and ministries dropped across the country. Every Christian ministry felt the impact and paid the price. To this day many in the world accuse us of wanting only their money. This is why we're so urgently being called to holiness just now. When we fall, no one outside our Christian circles remembers the glory. They remember only the failure.
AP: It's all about the cash, period!
Loren Sandford:
And that failure is taken as permission to sin by multitudes of immature believers. SIN IN LEADERSHIP MUST NOT BE MINIMIZED but faced for what it is, even as we forgive. God's mercy includes discipline. Abraham illegally fathered Ishmael byHagar, Sarah's maid when he could wait no longer for the son of promise.It split his family. Hagar and Ishmael had to be driven out and to this day Israel battles Ishmael. Consequences!
AP: People take it as permissiion to sin because the Word is not preached. If it was, the the truly regenerate would not take such liberties. You preach cheap grace, you get a faulty product.
He disciplines those whom He loves. His wrath is for the rest.
BTW, Sanford has no clue as to what Hagar and Ishmael are about.
Loren Sandford:
God forgave David, but the child of his union with Bathsheba died!
AP: David was a repentant and regenerate believer. (Romans 4:1-8) David did not continue to scheme and murder to facilitate his adulterous lusting. He married Bathsheba (the woman he lusted after and killed for?), and fathered Solomon (from his union with Bathsheba?) who became king, built the temple, and was part of the earthly lineage of Jesus.
Loren Sandford:
Galatians 6:7, "Do not be deceived, God isnot mocked; for whatever a man sows, this he will also reap."
AP: Amen!!
Loren Sandford:
God forgives, but discipline comes. Jim Baker magnificently repented, paid for his crimes in prison and wrote a book about it. I'm proud of him for the humility that came to his heart and how he humbly apologized to the body of Christ. But his ministry was never again the same and no one can take away the damage that was done to ministries whose giving declined because of the mistrust Jim sowed. So we're being called to a higher standard these days as God pours out His power, not because we have a religious and punishing God who loves to get down on us, but for the sake of the honor of the Lord and love forHis people and because much more is at stake these days. If we're going to wield His power for signs and wonders we're going to attract a lot of attention. Some of that attention will turn into close examination. We need for our sake and for the Lord's sake to be above reproach when that examination comes. God's honor is at stake. We're being called to a higher standard because God protects His own holiness even as He loves us, He will expose every sin, every unrighteousness, in order to cleanse us for our own good and for His own vindication. We each have a choice. We can choose confession,expose it ourselves, repent and seek to be clean and holy, pleading for the nature and character of Jesus to completely own us, OR we can hide the sin and be exposed by God in a more public way. There's a curious line in John 3:19-21 coming after the promise of eternal life for those who believe. "This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than theLight, for their deeds were evil. For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God."
AP: Apparently Todd Bentley was "caught" He did not come forward of his volition. If true, I assert he neither practiced nor preached the Truth. The same applies to all who hide until they are found out.
IF Bentley had come forward of his own volition, then that means that there were many "behind the scenes" that were aware of this. There's a whole lot of spinnin' going on.
BTW,WE wield power for signs and wonders?
Loren Sandford:
The choice: we leaders need to take the lead in exposing our sins to the light, asking forgiveness of the body of Christ for our mistakes and failures. Over the years I've stood before my own people on a number of occasions to humble myself, confess my sin and ask their forgiveness when my arrogance or failures of character impacted them negatively. I pray the same grace for Todd in this hour for his sake and that of the whole bodyof Christ. That kind of open confession can go a long way toward healing the broken hearts in God's people and the disillusionment that comes to the body of Christ when a leader falls. How shall we respond to Todd's failure? Fully face the magnitude of the tragedy and the damage done, but then move to
Galatians 6:1-2,"Brethren, even if anyone is caught in any trespass, you who are spiritual,restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness; each one looking to yourself,so that you too will not be tempted. Bear one another's burdens, and thereby fulfill the law of Christ."
Most of us will never be in a position to minister to Todd except to pray at a distance. But John Arnott is. Bill Johnson is. Che Ahn is. These men are fathers in the faith and in revival, men who have a relationship withTodd. Pray for them and for the tasks they must now perform on Todd's behalf. And carry the burden of this precious young man in your own heart. Feel it and let it bind you to compassionate prayer. God didn't throw David away when he sinned. There was discipline and there were consequences, but David remained king and fulfilled his destiny. Same with Abraham. It will be the same for you and me when we fail and for our brother Todd as well. God doesn't throw us away because we fell or made mistakes. He forgives. He heals. He restores. And our destiny awaits us, even in our failure, just as it did for Abraham and forDavid.
AP: Back to Romans 4. Abraham and David were regenerate believers by faith alone. God acts on behalf of the elect, for His own glory, and for the sake of His name. I respond to Todd's failure the way I respond to any unbeliever's failure. I pray for his salvation, and for his family, (especially his wife). What is especially heinous here is that men like Arnott, Ahn, Johnson are overseeeing his "restoration". Are these not the same men who gave their super-apostle seal of approval to the "outpouring" and to Todd? They are fathers in the faith and revival? The sovereignty of God and the authority of His Word are paramount. I pray that His will be done, and if that means the destruction not only of the Lakeland movement, but also the minstries of these men, then God's will be done. What we have here is men involved in massive propoganda, blaming, and covering their assets.
Soli Deo Gloria
The "Apostles and Prophets" Respond
I thought that I would begin by posting some of the various responses from the charismatic camp. They are more revealing than the events themselves. So for the next several posts I will address the happenings in Lakeland, i.e. the hubris.
As an FYI; in future posts, I will be addressing other issues re: the charismatic/prophetic/apostolic movement.
We must sharpen our swords and wield them effectively.
Exodus 32:
25And when Moses saw that the people had broken loose (for Aaron had let them break loose, to the derision of their enemies), 26then Moses stood in the gate of the camp and said, "Who is on the LORD’s side? Come to me." And all the sons of Levi gathered around him. 27And he said to them, "Thus says the LORD God of Israel, 'Put your sword on your side each of you, and go to and fro from gate to gate throughout the camp, and each of you kill his brother and his companion and his neighbor.'" 28And the sons of Levi did according to the word of Moses. And that day about three thousand men of the people fell. 29And Moses said, "Today you have been ordained for the service of the LORD, each one at the cost of his son and of his brother, so that he might bestow a blessing upon you this day."
Eph 6:
13Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand firm. 14Stand therefore, having fastened on the belt of truth, and having put on the breastplate of righteousness, 15and, as shoes for your feet, having put on the readiness given by the gospel of peace. 16In all circumstances take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming darts of the evil one; 17and take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God, 18praying at all times in the Spirit, with all prayer and supplication. To that end keep alert with all perseverance, making supplication for all the saints,
Hebrews 4:
8For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken of another day later on. 9So then, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God, 10for whoever has entered God’s rest has also rested from his works as God did from his.
11Let us therefore strive to enter that rest, so that no one may fall by the same sort of disobedience. 12For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart. 13And no creature is hidden from his sight, but all are naked and exposed to the eyes of him to whom we must give account.
Chris P.
As an FYI; in future posts, I will be addressing other issues re: the charismatic/prophetic/apostolic movement.
We must sharpen our swords and wield them effectively.
Exodus 32:
25And when Moses saw that the people had broken loose (for Aaron had let them break loose, to the derision of their enemies), 26then Moses stood in the gate of the camp and said, "Who is on the LORD’s side? Come to me." And all the sons of Levi gathered around him. 27And he said to them, "Thus says the LORD God of Israel, 'Put your sword on your side each of you, and go to and fro from gate to gate throughout the camp, and each of you kill his brother and his companion and his neighbor.'" 28And the sons of Levi did according to the word of Moses. And that day about three thousand men of the people fell. 29And Moses said, "Today you have been ordained for the service of the LORD, each one at the cost of his son and of his brother, so that he might bestow a blessing upon you this day."
Eph 6:
13Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand firm. 14Stand therefore, having fastened on the belt of truth, and having put on the breastplate of righteousness, 15and, as shoes for your feet, having put on the readiness given by the gospel of peace. 16In all circumstances take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming darts of the evil one; 17and take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God, 18praying at all times in the Spirit, with all prayer and supplication. To that end keep alert with all perseverance, making supplication for all the saints,
Hebrews 4:
8For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken of another day later on. 9So then, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God, 10for whoever has entered God’s rest has also rested from his works as God did from his.
11Let us therefore strive to enter that rest, so that no one may fall by the same sort of disobedience. 12For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart. 13And no creature is hidden from his sight, but all are naked and exposed to the eyes of him to whom we must give account.
Chris P.
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